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 Post subject: Re: My 2 scents: Hepler Me
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:49 pm 
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No boner from me. Just the first 3 movies please.

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 Post subject: Re: My 2 scents: Hepler Me
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:08 pm 
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Y'know, I wish Nubby would write what he was gonna, and I hope he reads this too.

Yes, I work in insurance. I handle commercial property claims for commercial property owners.

What would happen if 8 tried using my job to push forth my own personal ideas and agendas, even if they weren't related to my job?

Say I suddenly stopped handling claims for companies that weren't Fairtrade?

Say I suddenly started offering preferential treatment to gay brokers over straight ones?

Say I used my contacts to promote Scientology.

Say I did all of the above on company time.

What would happen to me? Hmm? How long before I got dropped for abusing my position to further my own personal agendas? Not long, I'd wager.

Now lets take another scenario.

I'm a commercial claims handler. Done it for years. I go for a new job at another insurer. They have positions in four departments.

Policy underwriting.
Claims.
Sales and retention.
Project management.

Which department should I be put to utilise my current skillset?

By all means, ask an adult to Hepl.

Whats my point?

She's a writer, no doubt, but she's in the wrong section for her own interests and style, and she's trying to push her agendas through using someone elses' time, money and product.

That doesn't mean she deserves what she's getting, but given her actions so far, it shouldn't come as a surprise she's pissed some folk off.

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 Post subject: Re: My 2 scents: Hepler Me
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:37 pm 
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Ax wrote:
@Smokes - You might have had some fiction "liked" but when it comes down to it, you're night a writer for a game dev, you don't know what's really involved or the formats needed by other departments of the devs, or timeframes or the important aspects to create a successful story for a game, because you havn't worked in that industry. True knowledge is knowing that we don't know shit. You don't know shit. Nor do I, but I bet working for a company that big is pretty fucking intense, and I don't think she sits at a desk all day and writes what the fuck she wants and passes it on all willy nilly. She'll be given objectives and boundaries, like anyone in work (probably to stop her writing turning into fucking Twilight) and understands them, unlike us.


No, I'm not a writer for a game. However, I am a writer, so I do know something about the process, and I've read stuff from people that have done both game writing and novel writing, like Michael A. Stackpole, or Raymond E. Feist, or R.A. Salvatore, or even the guy that wrote the Darth Bane books that actually wrote stuff for Dragon Age and Mass Effect. When asked about going from writing for one thing or another, to a man they've said that it's two separate disciplines, and that you can't just jump from one to another like writing for both things is the same. That's not my opinion, that's fucking gospel as told by people that have done both.

Ax wrote:
Also, she did say she didn't like a certain genre

Quote:
Q: What is your least favorite thing about working in the industry?

A: Playing the games. This is probably a terrible thing to admit, but it has definitely been the single most difficult thing for me. I came into the job out of a love of writing, not a love of playing games… I’m really terrible at so many things which most games use incessantly — I have awful hand-eye coordination, I don’t like tactics, I don’t like fighting, I don’t like keeping track of inventory, and I can’t read a game map to save my life.


So some things she can't do, others she doesn't prefer. Doesn't say anything about dancing games. Or Point and Clicks, or racing games...I could go on. To say she doens't like games is an assumption over a little information. She also said, may I remind you, she was expecting a child and didn't have much time to play games. She still obviously played them (otherwise they wouldn't be her least fave part) because she may well have been good at her job.


I don't understand how you're not grasping this. She is asked "What is your least favorite thing about working in the industry?", and she answers "Playing the games." Not "playing action games" or "playing RPGs" or "playing strategy games". No, she straight up answers "playing the games". Yeah, she explains later why she's no good at games, but it cannot be argued that she fucking said that she doesn't like playing games. It's right there in black and white, plain as day.


Ax wrote:
And again, if all of this bs what you're saying about her is ruining their games anyway, why the fuck are their stories hailed as some of the best story telling in games at right now? Think on, sunshine(s).


What Terra said.

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 Post subject: Re: My 2 scents: Hepler Me
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:34 am 
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Smokey, you write. You're not a writer in profession. I'm pretty sure you don't make a living for it. In the nicest way, I take your opinion on writing games on a level that is currently the same as the level or one of the worlds currently most successful game developers, as the same I'd expect people to consider my advice on music production. Yeah I'm a guitar player, have been for a lot of years, been in bands. Does that I mean I know what's involved in recording an album? Again, I appreciate how little I know, not blagging that I do know from a minute amount of information. I'm not naive enough to think the tiny, little amount I do know, is the be all and end all. And no matter who you've spoken to, it's still not this chick's job. It's not her bosses, it's nothing to do with their situation.

Smokey, I'm sorry, but you don't know. You really really don't. And none of us do. Please stop trying to convince me you do.

As for the quality on Bioware's stories. Dragon Age is one I havn't played, but I'm taking the opinions of just the people in this debate on it's quality. It might be shit, but I can't say whether it is or isn't without playing it. But let's have a look at their other games.

Mass Effect - Absolutely fucking amazing story, through and through.
Jade Empire - Play it and see.
The Old Republic - I've played a whole character, and I found amazing.
KOTOR - Amazing, critical success
Baulder's Gate
Neverwinter Nights

All the above seem to have fucking excellent stories, in fact they probably excel in story more than anything else. And these are the ones I've played myself. No idea what other games they've dont.

Can I ask one of you guys, who all seem to have a good track record of playing these games, at what point their stories have suffered?

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 Post subject: Re: My 2 scents: Hepler Me
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:44 pm 
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Your last point pretty much proves everything we're saying here, son.

All those games are excellent, and they have amazing storylines, and they're lauded as being some of the greatest games in their genres.

Also, Hepler worked on none of them. She has only worked on the two Dragon Age games and SW:TOR. But nice try all the same. Gotta applaud your ascention into White Knight status. :clap:

Anyways, as I keep saying, you don't need to be a meteorologist to know that its raining, you don't have to be a artist to know that a pile of bricks on the floor is NOT art, you don't need to be an architect to know a building looks ugly, and you don't have to be a writer to know that Hepler is in the wrong industry for her particular style of writing.

If you disagree with that simple statement, then the next time you EVER say that something is "shit", I'm gonna call you on it, because you're not a [enter profession here] and because of that, you don't know shit, you can't say shit, and until you become a [enter profession here] you're wrong to say shit.

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 Post subject: Re: My 2 scents: Hepler Me
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:37 pm 
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Blokeymon wrote:
~snip'd~


uh, yeah, qft

and shit

yeah just keep on typing my words before i type them, blokey, saves me some time

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 Post subject: Re: My 2 scents: Hepler Me
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:52 pm 
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Terradude wrote:
Blokeymon wrote:
~snip'd~


uh, yeah, qft

and shit

yeah just keep on typing my words before i type them, blokey, saves me some time

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 Post subject: Re: My 2 scents: Hepler Me
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:31 pm 
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Yes, I've played only one game which she's done, and no I didn't realise. However it doesn't disprove my point.

I've spoken to a few Dragon Age players, (only a few) and they've said it was a cracking release, including the story. On average it's been given 91% score. I'm gonna believe her work on that game is reasonable, or at least up to scratch of what her bosses wanted.

Terra says DA:II is naff. It got a reasonable score but I've not played it. Have you played it till the end Terra, or are you speculating (wouldn't be out of place from this thread would it?)? That's one game.

The Old Republic? I personally felt it was fantastic. Critically had cracking reviews and many consider it to be one of the best MMO releases ever. Yeah Terra you said it was "under fire" which is a fair point but that doesn't clearly say whether it's a critical failure or anything.

So that's all the games she's done for Bioware as a writer. Do I think she's great? I don't give two fucks (and my point is, neither should anyone else). But it does disprove that they're not shit.

Therefore whatever it is she's doing, be it a huge integral part of the story, or the fucking scenes, or fucking space combat shit that she has no idea about, they obviously havn't had a huge effect(hurhur) on the games. But people claim she's shit all the same. I don't care what she does, and if I found out, maybe I'd want to cockslap the bitch in the face, but I don't. But if people are claiming her work is shit that don't have a clue, then I might as well be reading the Kotaku comments page where everyone thinks they're an expert over the most minute info. I man, speculate, fine, but why the fuck are we assuming? Her Boss is obviously happy with her shit, so who's in the wrong? Her for trying to what she wants? Or the boss who employs her and allows her to (according the experts we have on the internet) to worsen the games released?

And before someone says "OPINIONS", critical success would indicate happy fans. Their shit has been fairly critically successful.

Also, in response to "she hates games".

> Least Fave
> Dislike

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....pick one.

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 Post subject: Re: My 2 scents: Hepler Me
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:35 pm 
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Blokeymon wrote:
Anyways, as I keep saying, you don't need to be a meteorologist to know that its raining, you don't have to be a artist to know that a pile of bricks on the floor is NOT art, you don't need to be an architect to know a building looks ugly, and you don't have to be a writer to know that Hepler is in the wrong industry for her particular style of writing.

If you disagree with that simple statement, then the next time you EVER say that something is "shit", I'm gonna call you on it, because you're not a [enter profession here] and because of that, you don't know shit, you can't say shit, and until you become a [enter profession here] you're wrong to say shit.


Oh and this. If you read what I put without isolating the parts you want, you'd see my point wasn't that you need to be an expert, I just said Smokey is no expert. Is point was that no one here is doing her job, or knows the slightest bit of what she does on a day to day basis, therefore have no idea over what influence she has on the games, how much her ideas are sent back to be changed because they weren't good enough first time, or maybe, just maybe, her boss asked for someone like her because her personally wanted some shitty emo part of the story in the games. Funny thing isn't it, not having a clue?

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 Post subject: Re: My 2 scents: Hepler Me
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:45 pm 
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Hitler was a very popular person in 1938, and was loved by millions.

>being popular
>being good

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 Post subject: Re: My 2 scents: Hepler Me
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:06 am 
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My few cents based on what has come previously:

I actually really like Fatboy Slim and would like to see what he'd do with some Blind Guardian material.

Smokey: IIRC, Fable 1 let you bone chicks or dudes. Straight/Gay Whatever, you got to get it on.

I'm more with Ax on this.

Everyone seems to be spouting like games don't have multiple writers, designers, different directors blahblahblah. I'm too lazy to check, but does anyone know off the top of their head how many writers were involved in the games she's written for? Probably a lot. Do you know that it's her writing specifically that's coming under fire? No. I sincerely doubt you do.

So, she says some things she'd like to see in X game. Doesn't mean it's in there or even that she tried to get it in there. It's possible to write yaoi fanfiction about how so and so is boning whatshisname on a moonlit night,and then go to your job and y'know, do it right.

Did she REALLY try to work her yaoi fangirlness into Mass Effect 3? I don't know, I'm only going off of what was said in this thread. If you don't know, then why bring it up? If so, did it get in the game?

If yes: So what? It was clearly approved by the higher ups on the project (in which case THEY should be the ones held accountable, they're the goddamned filter after all).

If no: What's the problem?


Also, I raffed at Hamburger Helper.

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 Post subject: Re: My 2 scents: Hepler Me
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:18 am 
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She was lead writer on the DA games and on ME3 if IMDB serves me right.

And theres usually always a thread on /v/ that have links/screencaps of her posts on the official Bioware forums, and she regularly goes on about how there should be more homosexuals in games (which I have no problem with, even so far as agreeing with this article), but as with everything, theres a time and a place, and trying to push a homosexual slant where there just isn't a need is just like trying to fit the racist sentiments of most Southern-state Americans into a game about boar hunting in the Louisiana swamps.

Now, in a game like Fable, where the game is 80% your character and 20% the actual story, then yes, theres a need for it, and no, Fable 1 didn't have same-sex relationships in it as far as I remember (but I could be wrong), but in a game where a characters sexuality makes about as much difference as the colour of the lasers fired by the spaceships, trying to force the issue is just silly.

And as has been said before, she said her least favourite part of working in the games industry is "playing the games". Not certain aspects, just "playing the games". If I worked in a customer service department, and my least favourite part of my job was "dealing with customers", then how many people with zero experience in that sector would tell me I was in the wrong job? I'm guessing everyone with a pulse and the ability to form cohesive sentences.

I still say the abuse she got is nowhere near warranted or acceptable, but she IS in the wrong job, or at least as a writer she's in the wrong sector.

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 Post subject: Re: My 2 scents: Hepler Me
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:22 pm 
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The original Fable did have same-sex relationships, but that was a glitch. You weren't supposed to be able to marry the same sex.

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 Post subject: Re: My 2 scents: Hepler Me
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:55 pm 
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God help me for thinking it might be a good idea to get involved in this thread...

My biggest issue is that, as with any one creating anything, if you fundamentally don't like what you are making you will take no pride in it. No pride means you will never push yourself or produce your best work.

Now MAYBE she is so truly gifted that her most tepid work will set the industry alight (she was given the job by a very talented team after all) but I suspect she was just a reasonable writer who got luck looking for steady employment. Great for now but what will she ultimately bring if really she would rather be creating the next Twilight.

Actually I over simplify (because it helps makes the point) there are many industry jobs you can do without loving games, for the love of what you're doing. This can even run over into story creation. However I feel for the kind of games this lass is involved in you need a deep understanding of the medium, and more importantly perhaps the desire to play it 100 times to make it better for a love of the art.

This girl deserves no hate, a reprimand from HR/marketing for an attacking the fan base maybe, but she and EA/Bioware should absolutely have come out guns blazing after the initial immature attacks (though again their defiance would have carried more weight had she not retaliated).

My point, it helps to love it and admire your art, if you don't you will never do your best, which is good for no one.

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 Post subject: Re: My 2 scents: Hepler Me
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:04 pm 
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DoFuss wrote:
God help me for thinking it might be a good idea to get involved in this thread...

My biggest issue is that, as with any one creating anything, if you fundamentally don't like what you are making you will take no pride in it. No pride means you will never push yourself or produce your best work.

Now MAYBE she is so truly gifted that her most tepid work will set the industry alight (she was given the job by a very talented team after all) but I suspect she was just a reasonable writer who got luck looking for steady employment. Great for now but what will she ultimately bring if really she would rather be creating the next Twilight.

Actually I over simplify (because it helps makes the point) there are many industry jobs you can do without loving games, for the love of what you're doing. This can ever run over into story. However I feel for the kind of games this lass is involved in you need a deep understanding of the medium, and more importantly perhaps the desire to play it 100 times to make it better for a love of the art.

This girl deserves no hate, a reprimand from HR/marketing for an attacking the fan base maybe, but she and EA/Bioware should absolutely have come out guns blazing after the initial immature attacks (though again their defiance would have carried more weight had she not retaliated).

My point, it helps to love it and admire your art, if you don't you will never do your best, which is good for no one.


:clap:

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